Ep. 1: Introducing Probably Nothing

Alexis Ohanian and Tiffany Zhong join forces to create your go-to NFT podcast. In this episode, we start with the question of the hour: What are NFTs and why do we love them?

Tiffany: I'm Tiffany-

Alexis: I'm Alexis-

Tiffany: I'm the founder- I'm the founder-

Alexis: [laugher]

Tiffany: How many times- We're
going to just keep it trying to-

Alexis: Alright alright ok.


I'm just gonna let you go.

As soon as you introduce
yourself then I'll say my thing.

Tiffany: Welcome to our podcast.

Probably Nothing is always
something when it comes to NFTs.

I'm Tiffany, Zhong the founder and CEO
of Islands, and I'm joining forces with

Alexis to create the one-stop podcast
for NFT news, deep dives, and interviews.

Expect many interviews with the most
interesting guests from upcoming

industry leaders, such as NFT project
creators to community leaders,

to Guild founders, and many more.

Alexis: I'm Alexis Ohanian, founder,
and former executive chairman

of Reddit and presently founder
managing partner of Seven Seven Six.

And I'm very excited because
this podcast is going to make me

feel very old, but in a good way.

because we're going to get to
explore all the latest emerging

trends in all things, web3.

Tiffany: So, Alexis, what are NFTs
and why are you so excited about them?

Alexis: Gosh, you know, the
best way to describe it.

So it's a digital asset where
the ownership is tracked on a

blockchain, Ethereum, the most
popular flavor right now for that.

The assets themselves can be
anything, you know, they could be any

kind of digital goods, like things
that'll exist in virtual worlds.

Um, to claims you can almost think of
them as like deeds on physical assets.

And in coming years NFTs, the technology
are going to evolve in ways that I can't

even predict, but like that's part of
the fun of building and investing in

this space is that we're talking about
the infrastructure for a new internet.

That's reallywhat web3 is, and it's
an internet where you basically have

money or value and ownership in a
way that takes advantage of all the

benefits of the digital world that is
like infinite scale and distribution

and virality, but still maintains a few
of the benefits from the analog world.

Like being able to have scarcity and
being able to prove verifiably, that this

is yours, and I'm now giving it to you.

It's wild.

We've seen I mean profile pics.

PFPs are probably the trend that most
of you have encountered right now,

but it's just the start and it is not.

It is not as simple as just right.

Clicking and saving the JPEG
in order to steal the asset.

Uh, it is actually a way to
frankly, spread the value.

And so when someone wants to
right click and save my Cryptopunk

of Serena, I say, go for it.

Please do, please put that everywhere
you can, because it will just make

the verifiable original more valuable.

Tiffany: So this PFP NFT phenomenon,
let's break that down for people who

don't understand what that is yet, but
are seeing people, celebrities, tech,

entrepreneurs, all sorts of people,
artists changing the profile picture

to something that they don't know.

It's usually an animal.

I think you recently changed
her profile picture to an ape.

Alexis: Yes, I aped in.

Tiffany: My profile picture is a, cat.

Alexis: A Cool Cat at that.

Tiffany: Exactly.

So why, why is Twitter now?

How did Twitter become a zoo
of animal profile pictures?

Alexis: Uh, it's interesting.

This has been.

Twitter has lived many lives.

And this is a company that in a lot
of ways, I wouldn't say resurrect- was

resurrected, but has been reinvented
now in the last year and a half.

And you know, we all now
know the profile pic.

Again, in 2005, starting Reddit.

No one was thinking about
a profile pic, right?

Facebook still existed in colleges.

There was no Twitter.

So if you were thinking about putting a
photo of yourself on the internet, you

were thinking kind of like MySpace or
Facebook, where it's a photo of yourself.

In fact, you know what?

No, I know for a fact
I uploaded the Reddit.

I uploaded Snoo as a, uh, person
quote unquote on Facebook.

And the account was banned after reached
a few hundred thousand, uh, friends.

It was banned because it was
an impersonation of a non-real

person, or is it a non-real entity.

And Facebook needed to have
real people on the platform.

And that, that was, uh, you know,
part of the ethos of Facebook.

But you know, in the last 15 years we see
more and more platforms and more, more

people get comfortable with the idea of
an avatar and look, mascots are cute.

I'm a big fan of mascots.

Uh, that's why I created the Reddit one.

That's why I've kind of created
them for every company I've done.

And I just think there's something
about the whimsical nature

of being able to change your
profile photo to some creature.

That then signals a sense of identity
to a tribe, whether it's the Bored Apes

or Cool Cats that it creates the same
sense of community that like a platform

such as Reddit has, but it's doing
it across very different boundaries.

It's, it's- it's like wearing a
particular article of clothing walking

down the street, ah, sports Jersey.


If I see someone wearing an
Angel City jersey, And I'm

wearing an Angel City jersey.

We can give each other a
knowing nod because we recognize

we're in the same tribe.

We've both opted into that tribe.

Anybody could join that tribe
as long as you can get an Angel

City jersey and be a part of it.

And as a species, we humans love this.

It makes us feel good.

It makes us feel seen.

And what you're seeing with PFPs
is the digital version of that.

And it's a V1, but the fact that
it has become as big of a status

symbol as quickly as it has, is a
very good indication of something

very special here, considering in the
past, how much a brand like Bored Ape

Yacht Club, which started in April?

Mar- May?

It's only a few months old.

If they had- if the board of yacht
club had started a t-shirt brand, like

in the vein of a Supreme or something
else, and they were four months.

Maybe, maybe they would have been
able to beg, borrow and steal

their way into getting Steph Curry
to wear that shirt into a game.


But today, a Steph Curry is paying for the
chance to associate with that community.


He's essentially paying for the
t-shirt and does it, and is not

wearing it walking into the game.

He's wearing it on his profile
photo for everyone to see.

And part of the reason he's doing that
is because he knows the value of the

ape that he's wearing is something that
accrues to him, the more people who see

value in it and want to be a part of it
because supply and demand finally locks

in and he can be rewarded just like anyone
listening to this for being an early

holder or early member of that community,
because there is just a scarce number of

what, 10,000 I think of that one, um, that
exists and, and it will never be more.

And so then what does it take
to get everyone to forget

that the Bored Apes matter?

Like, I don't want to say it's impossible,
but it's very, very hard to imagine

a scenario where the cultural value
of that goes immediately to zero.

Like you, you, it would, it would take,
it would be such an outlier event.

What you're seeing looks so weird
and it has these giant price

tags on it, but people are buying
into being part of a community.

And it's a special,
it's a special feeling.

Cause it's not like Reddit in 05 where we
had to convince people that they'd want

to participate for internet points that
were worthless and leaderboards that I

devised to help encourage people to post.

But for the community of like like-minded
people who all wanted to talk about

programming in the subreddit or gaming
in the subreddit, but they got no

value from it at the end of the day.

I mean, they got entertainment value
and they have some flex because they

have a little icon on their profile.

It says how long they've been a Redditer.

But now just with a simple JPEG at
the end of the day, you have something

that accrues value like stock in a
company because there's a finite supply.

And the people who want it
are ever increasing and that

dynamic never existed before.

And so when I see what's happening in
web3, all I think about is early days

of Reddit when it was working and, you
know, has now become one of the largest

websites on the internet, but without
any of the actual financial upside,

going to the people who did the work.

And that is meaningful because that
pays off student loan debt that pays

the bills that buys cars and homes.

Like that's when you unlock the
dollar value of that and, and properly

assess it or more, more properly
assess it or more properly value

it, it will motivate amazing things.

And we're just starting to see what it
does play to earn as a whole- we'll do

a whole other episode on play to earn
games, but like it's, it's exciting.

Tiffany: I mean, the equity-

Alexis: I got ranty.

Tiffany: The equity in these communities.

You can actually get
liquidity off of them, right?

Like in the past, you couldn't, you
couldn't actually monetize your fandom.

If you're a super fan of Beyoncé or BTS,
you can't monetize that you can only say

and shout at the top of your lungs, that
you are an early listener or early fan.

And like, maybe you could pull
up receipts of like you liking

the Facebook page in like 2010.

Alexis: Maybe some ticket stubs.

Tiffany: Yeah.

And that's about it, right?

That's worthless.

It only goes into play into like some
small amount of clout, but not really.

And so what these PFP projects, I
think ultimately it boils down to two

major things, social status and tribe.

Like making an NFT project, your
profile picture shows that you are-

you are an owner, but you're also
able to meet other owners as a result

because that is your profile picture.

So that's how you are able to find your
tribe on Twitter, on social media, and

then on the social status front, as these
communities start growing, you show that,

Hey, like I am actually an OG member,
but going back to the Bored Apes, right?

Magdalena, Kala had a great tweet,
which was like, imagine a five month

old startup with 690 million in
lifetime sales, GMV, a 100 million

in revenue, and like 80 million in
the, in the past 24 hours when they

dropped the Serums and the Mutant Apes.

80 million in one day, that is
unheard of in any early stage company.

Alexis: Yeah, it's phenomenal.

Tiffany: Or maybe even some
growth stage companies, right?


Alexis: And it's not all,
especially, especially when you

consider how high leverage it was.

Cause the team, the Bored
Ape team is not that big.


It's probably five, six people.

Um, you know, when you're talking about
something, right, it has- they have the

advantage of time, or timing rather.

And being early in this and being, you
know, among the sort of pioneers of it,

you see this all the time where some
of the first baseball cards, right.

They're not even of the best players,
like the Honus Wagner card, like,

Honus was a good baseball player,
but it wasn't like the he's not

like Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth.

But because that card is an iconic
sort of considered one of the first,

it has a value that will always exist.

Same thing.

I think with Cryptopunks, you saw
that first sort of wave there because

they artwork they produced, I think
Bored Apes represent that first of

a real sort of community mindset.

Like, Hey, let's create a space.

Let's think of a roadmap.

Let's build a tribe very explicitly with
what we're doing and be thoughtful and

any attention to detail on the art side.

Like lots of stuff that all came
together in a perfect storm.

And yeah, that's a, that's a hell of
a startup, a lot of- and a VC like

myself would be happy, gratefully,
like we'd be thrilled to be an

early investor in that startup.

And what's different here.

Is that there weren't VCs.

I mean, I-

Tiffany: They don't need them.

They don't need VCs.


Alexis: And that's, that's special.

Tiffany: It's a, it's a profitable
consumer startup that gets

2.5% royalty on every sale.

That's ongoing.

That's better than SAS.

It's better than any other
business model out there right now.

And so the difference between how board
ape approached it versus how a lot of,

um, other early NFT projects or even
celebrities approach it is the money

that they earned from selling out the
apes and from royalties, they're putting

that back into the community, right?

Like we're seeing celebrities,
they're selling an empty projects.

They're not investing back into
the community with that money.

That wasn't something that
people really thought of.

It was just as, Hey, like I'm
getting profit off of this as

opposed to seeing it as treasury.

Like this is the company treasury in
which we, as a community, decide how

we're going to be spending this money.

And we actually get a say in whether this
money goes towards a real yacht club,

a yacht party, a physical merch, right?

Like the community gets to kind
of help decide how that hundreds

of million dollars are going to be
spent at the Bored Ape Yacht Club.

Alexis: Yeah, I mean this,
and this is exciting.

This is stuff we talked about
this, um, maybe Circa 2015?


Reddit as a way.

It was, it was actually
because the college football

subreddit wanted to name a bowl.

And they were using third party r/cfb.

If I remember correctly, they were
using like third-party tools to

try to crowdfund, but it was a
kind of thing where we're like,

okay, this is the biggest college
football community on the internet.

If they could just pool their
money together and agree on sort of

different goals and all this stuff,
um, this could get done overnight.

You could easily have, uh,
r/cfb sponsored bowl game.

It'd be a top tier one.

Everyone would love it.

They'd do it just for the
lolz, but it would be fun.

The problem, come back to coordination
and centralization where, you know, what

has been unlocked now in web3 is that
you could, I mean, you could still run

these things very top-down and just be
a sort of dictator with your project.

Or we have technologies that
exist that are actually going

to enable things like voting.

We're seeing the proliferation
of DAOs and finding ways to

actually organize disparate groups
of people to make decisions.

And, I'm excited because
this is all new territory.

These ideas have floated around on
the internet for a very long time.

Well before Reddit too, but now it is
unlocked and that's part of the reason

I'm so bullish on the space overall it's
because we're just like, we're getting to

revisit ideas that are even more effective
now because of this new technology.

And, um, yeah I just love it.

Tiffany: That's a great story and
a really interesting example of the

difference between web2 and web3, right?

Like the things that you
can do with coordination and

people in web3 versus in web2.

And so-

Alexis: The incentives
are totally different.


Tiffany: Incentives are aligned here.

That's the biggest thing
incentives are aligned.

Alexis: And that for me?

It's a big deal.

The fact that it all worked before
with web2 is why you should be so

excited about web3, because web2
worked in spite of broken incentives.

And again, this is why I wake up
every morning as excited, more

excited than I've ever been in 16
years in tech, because I'm seeing

all the same patterns I saw building
Reddit, except everyone is aligned.

And more importantly, the folks
doing the heaviest lifting of content

creation and curation and community
building are the most rewarded.

Like people are rewarded sort of in
proportion to what they're doing.

And, human nature has
always had this dynamic.

You talked about the hipsters
who always tell people, like I

was a fan of BTS before they got.

This solves the hipster problem, like as-

Tiffany: The OG problem.

The OG fan supporter problem.

Alexis: Yes, I know it's
called the hipster problem.

Like my hipster friends are
the ones who are the most loud

about this, but you're right.

It's the, essentially it's great having
the receipts and having that value.

And what's so cool is the- I remember
having this conversation with Jack.

So I was a seed investor in Patreon, and I
remember having this conversation with him

in like 2014 where I believed even then,
that's why I led that round was because.

It was obvious that recurring
revenue was important to creators.

Patreon could be the platform to do it.

And because you have this infrastructure
that had real receipts, like literal

receipts, people could then easily check
the receipts and have proof like Issa Rae.

I have the receipts for however
early it was that I started

supporting Issa Rae on Patreon.

And now that she's a huge
superstar, there's value to that.

But it only lives in the Patreon
universe, at least for now.

And so then when I, again,
I'm, I'm just watching this

and just pattern recognition.

I'm seeing everything
that gets built with web3.

And to your point, when you can reward
the OGs and what gets exciting, we'll be

able to not just reward the OGs, we'll
be able to properly reward the early,

uh, sort of curators or viral makers
like think of how culture has spread.

Tiffany: The meme creators!

Alexis: Yes, that is a tremendous value.

And if you think- almost all culture,
whether it was like a painting on

a cave, all the way to the Mona
Lisa or hip hop or whatever it's

all created from the bottom up.

Um, at the end of the day, like it's a
bunch of people who decide a thing is

special and the reason I'm bring up the
Mona Lisa is because I'm pretty well

known at this point for ranting about
how no one cared about that painting.

It sat in the Louvre ignored for hundreds
of years until it got stolen in like 1912.

And then a bunch of Persians where
like, oh my goodness, the Mona

Lisa was stolen in the cafes.

They didn't have Twitter.

So they were just talking about cafes
and that made it a meme in Paris, which

then when it was returned, made people
actually care about the Mona Lisa.


We live today.

All assuming that like the middle
east has always been one of the most

important paintings in Western culture.

Not the case, not true at all.

It only mattered when it became a meme.

And so what about that kid in The Bronx?

Who heard hip hop for the first time
or heard a rap song for the first

time and told his 50 friends about it.

And because that kid is always on
to the new stuff, those 50 friends

tuned in and the mind virus spread
and the culture was created, right?

That kid never- forget the original
artist who also never got paid.

The kid who was the meme
maker in the analog world.

Never gotten anything for it.

Yet, was incredibly valuable
for creating that culture.

Now we have the receipts.

Now we have the accountability and
that's where it gets so exciting because

people should be able to make a living,
creating the meme around culture.

Tiffany: A hundred percent.

Alexis: And we know it's valuable.

We know it's valuable and it seems silly,
but it is so incredibly valuable and

people deserve to make the money from
that in the meantime, right, we you

know, there are kids who flip sneakers.

On StockX or eBay.

There are kids who flipped
trading cards on Alts.

Like they found ways they- and I'm
saying kids cause they do tend to be

younger, but like people have found ways
to hack the system to finally get some

value for having a cultural spidey sense.

But those are all hacks
and they're good hacks.

Some of them become very lucrative
businesses, but web3 fixes this and

it doesn't need to be a hack anymore.

It's a feature it's, it's
integral to the system working.

Tiffany: NFTs are tokenized memes.

And we're just living in a meme economy.

Alexis: A couple of years ago, we had
an annual meeting and I told everyone,

"Every business has to be a meme."

But I was talking about it in
the context of, we need to help

founders tell their stories.

And create the story.

So like with Papa, this was
like three years ago and it

was your grandkids on demand.

And so the meme was elder
tech is important, 10,000

boomers retiring every day.

There's not enough people
to help support that.

You need technology to fix it.

Enter Papa.


Create the meme.

Elder tech is the meme that's and I, it
feels silly now talking about it because.

What I should have been paying
attention to is the abstraction

of that that crypto was providing,
although people weren't really paying

attention to things like Cryptopunks
or NFTs back then they existed.

I remember Open Sea at YC demo day being
like a really tough pitch cause we were

in the middle of the crypto winter, and I
should have been hearing myself realizing

that creating the meme for every business
in sort of social media and storytelling

was just the least interesting part of it.

The real part is what
you're talking about.

The fact that now there's
actual technology to back it up.

And, I mean, let people
pay their bills with it.

Tiffany: I mean, the Cryptoadz example
where they feature a CCL, one of the

earliest projects that have a creative
commons license, which lets people use the

project for commercial purposes in remix.

What that means is anyone can make
a meme, a project and experiment on

top of the toads and monetize it.

They've allowed people to do that.

You can't do that right now with
many of the other projects and

this matters because anything can
make the toads go viral, right?

Like, you are literally letting
consumers be able to do whatever

they want with the toads.

An example of it is the socks
DAO where you can get a sock.

If you own a toad, one sock, one toad.

And the socks DAO is very,
very interesting because it's

almost reminiscent of like
Uniswap and Unisocks days.

Alexis: Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, hundred percent.

Tiffany: Now its like game theory
of like, do you want to redeem

it into a sock, a physical sock?

Or are you going to just hold
the NFT and let it accrue value?

Like, are you actually going
to swap it for, for real?

So I could wear it.

Alexis: The absurdity of this
is amazing, but it's very real.

And I mean we're talking what, I mean,
the what's the floor now on a Cryptoad?

Tiffany: Dude, there's a Cryptoad
that sold for 300 ETH two days ago.

Alexis: Good lord.

Tiffany: There was also a Cool
Cat that sold for 320 ETH too.

Alexis: Okay, and what was the, uh,
remind me so the original Cryptoadz-

Who's behind Cryptoadz project?


Tiffany: Gremplin.

Who's also-

Alexis: What's Gremplin's story?

Tiffany: We need to get
them on the podcast.

I was talking to Noah Davis about getting
him and a Gremplin on the podcast,

because I would love to go into details
on how he thought about the toadz and

Nouns because he's part of creators of
both the Nouns and the toadz, right.

And both projects are doing groundbreaking
work, like really innovating on

what it means to hold an NFT, having
really interesting game theory.

Having it tied to different forms of like,
uh, remixing experiments, but also DAOs,

the Nouns DAO, which so Nouns DAO launched
three months ago, around three months ago.

They have 31 million in treasury
already and they do one drop,

one auction a day, forever.

It's generative, it's tech.

They use technology so that this will
last forever, even after the Nouns DAO

creators are no longer here, right?

Like that's so crazy to think about.

And if it's 31 million in just three
months where these auction daily

auctions are now going for crazy prices,
imagine were Nouns will be in a year.

And people in the community are
submitting interesting proposals to

take some money out of the treasury and
build a mobile app or build an apple

TV app or an apple watch app, right?

Like people are really investing
into the community and it's a

very live and thriving community.

Alexis: Wild.

One I would not bet against.

Tiffany: We will dive deeper into these
projects throughout the podcasts are going

to have them as guests, it'll be a lot of
fun to dive into all of these different

implications, but also use cases.


The thing is there are so many
uncovered use cases that we

will start seeing unravel.

Options are endless, and
that's why this is so fun.

It's like a game that never ends.

You can continue adding more things,
more characters, more levels like

you are the creator of the game.

Alexis: Yeah, and I feel like the
boomer here, just to be clear,

you did this podcast with me
because I'm the boomer, right?

Tiffany: The zoomer
and the boomer is this.

Alexis: Yeah.

Yeah, no I get it.

I'm the old one.

I mean, I feel very comfortable
in this world of- and we wake up

every morning and have to relearn.

I tell my wife this, I have to wake
up every morning and just learn the

industry all over again because of
the stuff I missed while I slept just

catching up on Twitter and Discord.

And, the tools will get better.

They have to get better because humanity
only like this- there's only going to

be more interesting stuff being done,
and our brains and 24 hours in the

day are a little bit- so we're going
to need better curation tools working

on investing in a few of those, but-

Tiffany: Working on building them.

That's what were focused on.

Alexis: I mean, like that has to exist.

I just don't know what-

Tiffany: There's a lot
to build in this space.

There's a lot.

Alexis: This is a young person game, and
I feel- I mean, I love spending time with

my wife and daughter, but I definitely
realize like my prime, when I wasn't

married with a kid was such a great time
to be able to just build all the time.

Then think about building all the
time and, you know, obviously Reddit

came out of that and I'm proud of
that, but what is going to get built

right now by the folks who can truly
immerse themselves in this is it's

going to build a whole new internet.

And, yeah I love it.

I feel invigorated by it, even though
I have all these gray hairs now.

Tiffany: Olympia is going to be
a Guild founder by like age 10.

Alexis: Right!

I mean, I'm waiting for her to put
together a couple of proposals for me.

I have, I do have her ENS name.

I need to set up a wallet for her.

I actually that- there's a version
of this that lets you sort of grants.

Like, okay there's a version of this
that is actually really charming and

sweet, which lets you sort of invest.

Like of the modern
version of a savings bond.

Tiffany: A trust fund.

Alexis: Like when I was born- Yeah.

Well like I didn't quite have a trust
fund, but my great aunt got me, I

think it was a savings bond as a kid.

And it was one of those things where
like, you'd have to wait 18 years,

but you know, the amount of interest
that would accrue, it became like a

nice little chunk of money, right.

That was the thing that when a
baby was born in 1983, you did.


Or at least my great aunt did.

There is going to have to be
a web3 equivalent of that.

And I just love the idea of like,
"Congratulations on your newborn,

here's the Cool Cat that I got her.

I hope she likes it."

And,it's absurd, but the portfolios
of your generation, and then

certainly Olympia's generation
are going to look very different.

It's not going to be like
60-40 stocks and bonds.

It's going to be like 2% Cool Cats and
3% Unisocks and you know 10% GameStop.

And, I mean, it's going to be weird
and, there's going to be a Serena

Williams index for her collectibles.

There's going to be all these
different assets that we value.

And by we, the value of culture is going
to finally ascend in a way that we've

never been able to quantify before.

You know?

It's gonna make some- it's
definitely can confuse a lot of

boomers in the next 10 years.

Myself included at times.

Tiffany: After you started tweeting about
how you're making NFT choices based on

the things that Olympia was pointing at.

I started getting DMs from parents
being like, "How should I think

about building the NFT portfolio
for my kids?' It's amazing!


Alexis: I believe it.

I just her pick all of my
Cool Cats, so she picked up

the ones that looked like me.

So we'll see how that strategy does.

Tiffany: It'll do better
than your average.

I'm sure.

Alexis: I mean, shes got good taste.

That's what wild.

I don't even- how do you even value- is
there some tool that I don't know about

to properly value your NFT collection?

Aside from just looking
at like the floors.

Tiffany: Zapper.fi is probably
the best bet to see what your

portfolio value is worth right now.

But I do think they assess based
on floors instead of by traits.

Which is super intricate, right?

Like you have to plug into Rarity
Tools or like the contract itself

to know how much this is worth, or
just look at the floor on Open Sea.

Alexis: It's worth it.

Tiffany: A couple of different
ways of looking at it.

Go to Zappify, go check it out.

Might be fun.

I actually just signed up.

Alexis: Not investment advice.

Tiffany: Yeah, not investment advice.

I just looked at my portfolio
last week off of it.

It's really fun.

Also, it's really, really fun
to go look at other people's

portfolios and what they're worth.

That's way more fun than
looking at yourself.

Alexis: That's so wild.


I mean, but like this is going to be
something really, really remarkable.

This podcast and, and I'm hyped to be able
to do this with you, because I know- like

I said, I still feel like I'm swimming in
the deep end because I have- like I cannot

devote a 100% of my brain space to this.

So there are things I'm going to be
learning as well as complaining about

because I'm the resident boomer.

So this'll be-

Tiffany: Geriatric millennial.

Alexis: Geriatric millennial.

Tiffany: You're not quite a boomer,
but you self classify as such.

Alexis: I do, I do.

Tiffany: And so does Lulu.

Alexis: Lulu knows.

Lulu used to be my intern now she's
at islands and she keeps me humble.

You know, Gen X-er, Gary Vaynerchuk,
has done a hell of a job in this space.

I think it's very interesting because
he's playing 4D chess because he

knows every investment he makes
in VeeFriends is also building

credibility for his bigger business,
working with other- like working- like

supporting brands and helping brands
navigate their digital strategy.

And so it's doubly smart because he's
dogfooding all the best practices that

he's going to brands with these days.

Tiffany: Brilliant.

He's brilliant.

Alexis: It's very, very smart.

Tiffany: His strategy around VeeFriends
was also like an impeccable execute.

Alexis: Yes.


And especially with a demographic
that I'm sure had to get educated

on a lot of crypto things.

I think the typical Gary Vee fan six
months ago, or whatever it was they

launched that was not like knee deep.

You know, Metamask, Rainbow
wallet plugged in, ready to

go buying and selling all day.

He really had to do an education and
bring folks in, and from a utility

standpoint has been very smart.

I love seeing that.

This is the part where we're in
that early phase where now everyone

is looking over at other great
projects, taking inspiration,

figuring out how to do stuff better.

I mean, it's going to be a rapid
iteration and the things that we

think of as remarkable today in like
three months and certainly in six

months and nine months are going
to seem boring and like milk toast.

And, oh man, it's going to be,
it's going to be fun cause we got

lots to talk about every week.

Tiffany: Yeah, exactly.

Well, this is just the start
and, um, final question.

If you're stranded on an island for one
year and could only take one of your

NFTs with you, which one would it be?

Alexis: Oh, that's easy.

It's the, well-

Tiffany: It's one of your punks?

Alexis: I was going to say
it'd be one of my Serena punks.

Probably the one that I brought to
the Met is the one that I gifted her.

Tiffany: Yeah.

Alexis: I still own like five or six
others that I'm just hanging on to for

Olympia's future college fund or whatever.

Tiffany: Haha.

One of those will be able to pay off her
college fund and her future kids' college.

Alexis: Probably, yeah.

Okay, let's get wild though.

So yes, and infrastructure will exist so
that she wouldn't even need to sell it.

Whether it's like, you know, today,
a wealthy person who has a Van Gogh

doesn't need to sell the Van Gogh
to get liquidity, they can borrow

against it and use it as collateral.

First Republic is not going to give
me collateral for a Cryptopunk today.

There might already be defy solutions.

I don't know, but like, there's going
to be some version of this, whether it's

fractionalizing 49% of it, so other people
can own it or just borrowing against it.

So that's the crazy part is we're
talking about an asset that is

digital and is going to have all
those same properties from the analog

world, except it'll be so seamless.

It'll just happen with a couple
of taps and money will appear that

then she can use for school and
for, you know, for her kids' school.

And who knows.

I mean that's- and so yeah, to answer
that question, I would take the

Serena Cryptopunk that I gifted her.

Cause then it would make me like nostalgic
for when I wasn't stuck on this island

and I could actually see my wife.

Thats the right answer for any husband.

Tiffany: Very cute.

Alexis: What would yours be?

Tiffany: Mine would have to be the
Cool Cat that im repping everywhere.

Alexis: Ah, okay, well it is your PFP.

Yeah, that's a tough one.

You all need to build a solution for this.

I don't know which PFP to- I
threw up my Bored Ape cause a

couple of Bored Ape folks who are
like, "Yo, you at the Bored Ape?"

And I'm like, "Of course
I'm in the yacht club, man.

I've been there a minute."

And so I had, you know, put it
up, but then it's like now I'm

implicitly betraying Cryptopunks
and Cool Cats and Pudgy Penguins.

I need a better sense of identity thats
not Twitter that's built for this world.

Is there something- can
islands built this for me?

Tiffany: Maybe soon.

Maybe soon.

NFTs just got a lot more interesting,
but it's "probably nothing."

You might be able to take out a loan
against it for your future kids who knows.

Well, we will dive into all of these use
cases, examples, stories, projects, and

bring on the most interesting guests.

Send us who you want us to interview
and have on board, and we'll

see you on Discord and Twitter.

Alexis: Bye everybody.

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